View Full Version : Microsoft Windows Vista beta2


Estaban
22nd June 2006, 11:03 AM
Hello and good (morning/afternoon/evening/night) to all.
Recently I've downloaded Windows Vista off Microsoft's website, and thought it might be fun to share for all those interested in this particulair OS. Remember that it's still in development, and items can turn out differently in the final version.

1. The installation.

The installation was not hard at all, I've tried Longhorn (codename for Vista) before and it was rubbish. Not with beta2, I've read story's about people having trouble installing Vista and that they couldn't get into their bios or whatever. I personally think this is because of faulty hardware. Anyway, the setup exists of 2 basic steps. Step 1: Enter your (legit) serial number. Since I got the serialnumber off Microsoft, this was not a problem. The beta2 serial I use can be used up to 10 pc's at the same time. Since you must activate, like we've seen with Windows XP it will be checked. Step 2: Choose were to install, you will get a graphical installer wich tells you what you can do. Similair to fdisk under DOS, but with a graphical interface. After this step, click next and your off to go. It took my notebook (AMD64 3000+ with 512MB ram and 80gb disk) like half an hour to finish up.

2. The interface.
Very blackish, I like that; because it's so much nicer to look at (and I mean that in a performance way). If I look at the blue 'bliss' interface for hours, I feel like my eyes are bleeding. With the blackish interface of Vista, that problem is not there. After all, darker colors are better to look at; that's why most of the high contrast are dark tinted.

3. Feeling.
Changes have been made to the Windows Explorer, everything is set-up so that you can find the thing you are searching for; at any time. This is thanks to the builtin searchfunction, similair to the one you can find at any new macintosh. The icons are improved, I like that it's all vector-based now. To me, this is great because I wear lenses and no glasses anymore. But when I remove my lenses I can't see everything so clear, because of the large icons and text and whatever it's easier to navigate around even without my lenses. Ofcourse this can be non-practical at time's, but hey it beats the XP look. I personally think the vista icon's are looking a little better than Mac os X's one's. But that's ofcourse a personal opinion, so sue me ;). If you got a legit serial number, you can choose to get a free Office 2007 Beta2 copy; again, blackish :)

4. Downside.
The Interface is based on 3D now, and DirectX 10; this is great but not for most of the videocard's builtin computers at this time of writing. Most of them are built to handle 2D interface's and interactions smoothly thus 3D mode's are like Microsoft likes to call it 'non-supported'. The result of this is that you cannot for example enable the 'glassy' look of the aero interface. Glassy, in this case, means transparancy (alpha-blending) and blurring of the background wich resolves into more focussing on the item you are looking at. For example a Word document, your attention is drawn less to the Interface and more to the actual work. Though that's all nice, people will nontheless customize and tweak their interfaces to make it look and interact just the way they like it; and I'm no exclusion. Ofcourse there are people out there, and you might be one of them, who can think of more things that suck about Vista. That's really not my problem, I can do my programming work on a 286; so for ME it doesn't really matter in what kind of enviroment i'm currently at.

5. Stealing.
I can post you a load of posts at other website's in wich users complain about that Microsoft (again) stole the idea's from Macintosh. It's a COMMON fact by now, everyone wants to make their product work; and therefor you need to give people something familiair. We've seen it with Apple, inventing all kind of (cool) new stuff wich never came out great. So why is Apple (like some website's like to call it:) ressurected from the dead computer company's? The Ipod, it's nothing too inventive, just a simple userfriendly mp3/ogg player. So why are the Ipods so populair? Simple, it's something we are already familiair with; with on top some cool extra's like color, a fancy interface. Most people really don't care about new 'world changing' products, so you can imagine it's kind of hard to make a new product that nobody has, and that people are wanting to buy it. The same thing for Microsoft and Vista, it's the same interface with alot of (cool) addons and stuff you saw on the Macintosh. Who cares, it works for people. I've seen so many boys and girls installing the Mac OSX skin onto their XP computers with Stardock software. Why? It's what people want, so Microsoft now has done a similair thing; but just slight better thus people will think it's nice and buy it. Apple must not complain about people using OSX skins on XP computers, you can see it as a compliment; we are too cheap to buy us a real one but we like it anyway. Conclusion: It's better to 'steal' something, and making it more shiny than the source instead of creating something nobody will ever buy. You see it everywere, not only in 'computerland', open your eyes and look around. It's in your local supermarket, your clothing, the stuff you drink eat and do! It's all related. So please, stop complaining about stolen stuff. (reference to the ever lasting Mac vs Windows, vs Linux vs Unix conversations, it's tiring.)

6. The 'future', or maybe even tomorrow.
People will buy Vista, and complain about that their hardware is too slow. Eventually the hardware will be upgraded and people complain about other stuff, it's human. Macintoshes are booting XP already, as for Linux. What do I see in a computer of the future? Quad booting; all mayor operating systems into one computer; every one's happy. You can choose for Unix, Linux, Windows and Mac; full compatability for everyone, share a drive or partial drive with the other OS's and just BE. I've ran Mac OSX on my Intel, I've ran Linux on my motorola; it's all great software. As long as something works for you, you should use it. It would also be nice if programs will be OS-compatible. Eg. you can use Windows applications under Mac and vica versa; this is already possible, but I ment that in a non-simulated way. Recently I've ran some gnome program from one of my Ubuntu-based servers on my Windows XP laptop; it was slow but it's a start!

For a screenshot of my Vista Beta2 desktop, click here:
http://www.deviantart.com/view/35133227/
This review is purely based on my own thoughts and experiences, leave a reply and discuss this thread :).

Robert
22nd June 2006, 04:58 PM
WOW! That is one nice looking OS. I have never liked Windows, but if they could make it more stable then I would be tempted to start using it again given how hot the graphics look.

Gio Takahashi
23rd June 2006, 05:18 AM
I have been using Windows Vista since December, and each beta build continues to get better and more stable.

The one I am using, Build 5384 (Also, the official Beta 2) Looks VERY nice.

I will need to post a screen shot myself, to show offthe real effect of the Aero Glass effect.

Here are some screen shots:

http://www.unitedempire.net/images/desktop001.jpg

http://www.unitedempire.net/images/desktopvisa001.jpg

You will notice that the title bars and border, and the explorer taskbar, and the sidebar ( though not noticeable) are using the Glass interface, which is a special transparent effect. It's pretty cool.(IMO, MUCH better than the Non Glass interface, as shown in Estaban's screen shot.)

The sidebar on the right side of the desktop uses several gadgets (which is similar to what OS X have, but I'm not sure seeing as I have never used it.) Yes, you can easily customize your own gadgets as well. So far, each gadgets customization seem to be HTML/XML/JAVA based.

As you probably guessed, Vista have a much higher bar for System Requirement than XP, but it's still reasonable as well.

Estaban
23rd June 2006, 09:21 AM
Yea well my notebook's videocard does not meet the minimal requirements, so Im not getting the fancy interface. Btw dude :P pokemon omg! Nice to see this running on someone else's notebook too. There used to be a tweak to add EnableMachineCheck in the registery, but that one doesnt work for me (and alot more people). This entry will disable hardware checking thus enabling the glass interface. Thanks for sharing!

Gio Takahashi
24th June 2006, 07:25 AM
Rofl. Ruby and Sapphire? Haha. I name my hard drives after Gemstone names. I choose the wierdest name for my hard drives.

My other external hard drive happens to be Emerald. And Then there was Omega, Supreme, Alpha,and so on.

There used to be a tweak to add EnableMachineCheck in the registery, but that one doesnt work for me (and alot more people). This entry will disable hardware checking thus enabling the glass interface. Thanks for sharing!

I wouldn't recommend attempting it anyway. Even if you can try to tweak the glass on, you shouldn't. If windows won't load glass interface on your graphic card, then you probably shouldn't even try getting around it.

Brian
24th June 2006, 04:24 PM
I guess I'll have to take a look at it myself once it's out. But let me ask you about some common annoyances.

1. Mime types
One of the things I most hate about Windows. Has anything changed in mime types? Does realplayer still steal all your mime associations when you install it or does Windows do _anything_ to prevent this?

2. User priviliges
Are user accounts by default in "administrator" mode or are they in non-priviliged accounts? What does installing software entail in this regard?

3. Media handling
I assume that Windows Media Player is the center of all media now. Does it play "everything" out of the box? mpg, ogg, divx, dvd, realplayer, quicktime etc etc? (This btw is a criterion I always apply to linux.) If not, how difficult or painful is it to collect all the common codecs?

4. Rebooting
Does Norton Antivirus still make you reboot when you install it? Does installing drivers imply rebooting?

5. "Security"
Have you tried deleting a desktop shortcut? Just how infested is Vista with all sorts of "helper" dialogs that ask you the same annoying questions to confirm your actions "for your own safety"?

6. Windows update
What's it like?

7. DLL hell
Has anything at all changed or will applications still overwrite each other's dlls with no version control?

8. Fonts
Have they improved? Apparently MS was introducing a few new fonts that were to improve the look and feel. The font in the screenshot you showed looks rather lame. Have the fonts improved overall? Antialiasing?

9. Backups
Any facility for backups at all, except for backing up "My documents" (which is sooo useful)?

10. Shell/scripting
Is there one? Was the talk of a proper shell just vaporware?

11. Hand holding
In terms of file management I mean. Does Windows still overrule the user everytime you want to save a file or open a file, suggesting "My documents" as the be all and end all, no matter where your documents actually are?

Gio Takahashi
24th June 2006, 11:43 PM
I guess I'll have to take a look at it myself once it's out. But let me ask you about some common annoyances.


I'll try my best to answer all of them.


1. Mime types
One of the things I most hate about Windows. Has anything changed in mime types? Does realplayer still steal all your mime associations when you install it or does Windows do _anything_ to prevent this?
I'm not EXACTLY sure what you mean by "Mime", but there are features that allows you to determine which program has higher associations priorities (IE WMP > Realplayer)


2. User priviliges
Are user accounts by default in "administrator" mode or are they in non-priviliged accounts? What does installing software entail in this regard?


Well the very first account will always be priviledge, of course. But you can make other user "Access" level. It appears to be more customizable than before, but I never really got into this.


3. Media handling
I assume that Windows Media Player is the center of all media now. Does it play "everything" out of the box? mpg, ogg, divx, dvd, realplayer, quicktime etc etc? (This btw is a criterion I always apply to linux.) If not, how difficult or painful is it to collect all the common codecs?


In one link: http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/CCCP_Combined_Community_Codec_Pack_for_Windows_2000XP/1135350520/1

It will play every format for you.

Of course I still prefer other Media player, IE Sonic Cine player from Roxio, at this time.


4. Rebooting
Does Norton Antivirus still make you reboot when you install it? Does installing drivers imply rebooting?


IMO, Screw Norton. It sucks. Get something like AVG, as soon as Vista version of AVG comes out. Or use EZ Virus scanner, which has free subscriptions for Beta Tester.

As said earlier, I've been using Vista on my laptop as a main productive OS. I have quite a few drivers to use. TV Card, Wireless Game Controller, External hard drive and so on. I have yet to have restart for drivers. However, there's still driver compatability issue, but that should be of no surprise considering Vista is still in Beta testing.


5. "Security"
Have you tried deleting a desktop shortcut? Just how infested is Vista with all sorts of "helper" dialogs that ask you the same annoying questions to confirm your actions "for your own safety"?


By Default, there is this thing called User Account Protection. It's very annoying, but you can very easily turn it off by running "MsConfig" but until then, you'll be asked to do nearly every computer altering option, from installing application to deleting a shortcut off of desktop. Irritating, but you can easily turn it off.


6. Windows update
What's it like?


MUCH BETTER.


Its got its own section, and you will be informed of what update needs to be done, the priority of the updates, and every glory details about each updates. In Example, Microsoft released 5 updates and bug fixes for Vista, I was able to view the details of each updates. You can easily tell how and when you want the updates to be done, whether you want to do it manually or automatically on its own, kinda like XP, but I think it runs much better than ever.


7. DLL hell
Has anything at all changed or will applications still overwrite each other's dlls with no version control?


I have not yet noticed any applications overwriting each other's Dlls so I am not sure at this point. Can't say much.


8. Fonts
Have they improved? Apparently MS was introducing a few new fonts that were to improve the look and feel. The font in the screenshot you showed looks rather lame. Have the fonts improved overall? Antialiasing?


I like it much better than before, however, MS has a LONG way to go with the fonts, some place are still using older fonts while other are using the new fonts. Hell there's STILL Certain area that STILL uses Windows 3.1 layout! Font installation system anyone?


9. Backups
Any facility for backups at all, except for backing up "My documents" (which is sooo useful)?


Looks like Windows included its own backup program. you can very easily back up your entire user directory, and transfer it to another Vista installation. I have yet have areason to use backups yet, but I will expect to take advantage of this "Windows Transfer" option when I upgrade to the next build.


10. Shell/scripting
Is there one? Was the talk of a proper shell just vaporware?


I don't understand, tell me more.


11. Hand holding
In terms of file management I mean. Does Windows still overrule the user everytime you want to save a file or open a file, suggesting "My documents" as the be all and end all, no matter where your documents actually are?

I save most of the stuff in my User Directory (Which replaces Documents and Settings), so I'm not sure. However, so far it looks like it opens up folder to where you last save a file, but again I frequently use the "Documents" area.

Oh any reference with "My" are taken out.

Personally, it runs, looks much better than XP. I really like it.

mf
25th June 2006, 03:17 PM
1. Mime types
One of the things I most hate about Windows. Has anything changed in mime types? Does realplayer still steal all your mime associations when you install it or does Windows do _anything_ to prevent this?
MIME types (or rather file extensions since Windows doesn't work with a MIME system) have been fixed in XP already where it remembers all your associations chronologically. Sometimes I have a problem that I can't open multiple MP3 files because the Winamp association is set incorrectly. Going to Tools->Folder Options->File Types then shows MP3 files be of the type "MP3 File". When I remove that association, it goes back to being a "Winamp media file" and it all works again. To be honest the only filetype issue I've encountered in XP is that Windows Media Player's file associations are "magic" and can only be turned off from inside WMP. If I tell Media Player Classic to open all my video files, they will still be opened by WMP until I tell WMP that it should stay off them.

3. Media handling
I assume that Windows Media Player is the center of all media now. Does it play "everything" out of the box? mpg, ogg, divx, dvd, realplayer, quicktime etc etc? (This btw is a criterion I always apply to linux.) If not, how difficult or painful is it to collect all the common codecs?
If you want cross compatibility, don't look at Microsoft. Notepad can only read CR/LF plaintext, the filesystem will only read NTFS or FAT, Networking will only read NetBIOS shares, the kernel will only execute MZ/PE files, and Windows Media Player will only play Windows Media (well, and some others like MPEG1 and DVD). If you want format support, get Media Player Classic and install ffdshow and realalt/quicktimealt.

7. DLL hell
Has anything at all changed or will applications still overwrite each other's dlls with no version control?
Again, you're behind on the times. XP fixed this issue with Windows File Protection. DLL versioning is no longer a problem, since XP manages system DLLs and modern applications contain their own DLLs in their working directory (which is first in the binary search path).

8. Fonts
Have they improved? Apparently MS was introducing a few new fonts that were to improve the look and feel. The font in the screenshot you showed looks rather lame. Have the fonts improved overall? Antialiasing?
The new fonts are nice (though a rehash of existing fonts, obviously), but the font renderer has not improved noticeably. I believe the ClearType engine was hacked so that large pitch fonts (72pt for instance) is now anti-aliased along both axis, but no work has been done on the traditional (CRT) font engine, and small pitch fonts in ClearType are still only anti-aliased along the horizontal axis, meaning complex script fonts get pixelated because they are curvy and require vertical anti-aliasing as well.

10. Shell/scripting
Is there one? Was the talk of a proper shell just vaporware?
Windows PowerShell (aka MSH or Monad) will be released separate from (and earlier than) Vista.

Gio Takahashi
27th June 2006, 03:34 PM
Quote:
5. "Security"
Have you tried deleting a desktop shortcut? Just how infested is Vista with all sorts of "helper" dialogs that ask you the same annoying questions to confirm your actions "for your own safety"?


By Default, there is this thing called User Account Protection. It's very annoying, but you can very easily turn it off by running "MsConfig" but until then, you'll be asked to do nearly every computer altering option, from installing application to deleting a shortcut off of desktop. Irritating, but you can easily turn it off.


Let me make an addenum to this response.

As of the Latest Vista Build, the User Account Protection system has been greatly improved. Now it is supposedly a lot less of a hassle. It is said that it is no longer a hassle to even delete desktop icons. I have yet to try out this build, however.

Floris
27th June 2006, 05:58 PM
I had it running for a weekend and am quite pleased with it, but the server I had was top of the range so everything I run was pretty cool :)

Timewalk
17th September 2006, 03:38 AM
Hey Gio, nice to see you here :)
Have you all upgraded to RC1??

Disjunto
17th September 2006, 02:03 PM
yeah, i wanna go back :(

Timewalk
17th September 2006, 02:07 PM
yeah, i wanna go back :(

Why?? RC-1 isnt more stable for you?? :confused:

Disjunto
17th September 2006, 02:17 PM
my Beta 2 never crashed... i just got annoyed with nothing working properly... now i'm on RC1 and apps crash daily and i'm still annoyed and not everything working

Floris
19th September 2006, 01:32 AM
Great article/review estaban :)